Dylan Wilder Quinn Discovers More Than Their Gender Identity

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Trigger Warning: A heads up we mention an eating disorder and suicide in this episode. Also, we include a couple swear words.

Dylan Wilder Quinn prefers they/them pronouns. Growing up they read female to most people. 

As a teenager Dylan knew they were supposed to like boys. At least that was the message.

DYLAN: I was like constantly trying to like, make that movie love happen with boys. And I was like, this is not working out.

Then when Dylan was a junior they realized they had a crush on a classmate.

DYLAN: I was 17 and I finally figured out what it was like, I had words for it and I was like, And  I was like, I like her so much. I want to spend all my time with her. I'm in love with her. And I like want to have sex with her. I don't know if I can say that on a podcast, but okay. Um, and I was like, I was like, I'm gay. Like I was like, shit I am gay. Oh no. And I remember like looking around and being like, do I know anyone who's gay? 

Dylan explored the idea for a few days.

DYLAN: After about a week, I was like, this is too scary. Like I'm just going to go back to dating my boyfriend… I like really made myself forget so serious denial going on. Yeah. And I would even call it like internalized homophobia. Um, yeah. Like I did not want to be gay. Like I had had no models for that going well. Like we had a lot of rumors in my high school of like, they're gay, they're gay, they're gay. And like, it was not a good thing.

Dylan felt very much alone.

DYLAN: I was like, I will never find love. I will never be happy.

This is 2 Lives. I’m Laurel Morales.

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Growing up in Boise, Idaho, Dylan got a lot of mixed messages. Their mom would say things like, stand up for yourself but don’t stand up to me.

DYLAN: And so, I think I overall learned to be quiet about my own voice. Um, cause it was, it was scary when I spoke up...If I ever got mad at her, she would start yelling at me.

Dylan had to navigate a lot of anger. Their mom was unpredictable, and so was their older brother. 

DYLAN: My brother got really addicted to drugs and alcohol when he was in high school. So I was like around 10 or 11. And I like remember a few times he just got like really angry at me and would like shove me down or hit me.

That’s why as a kid and even as a teenager Dylan wasn’t really thinking about their sexuality or gender identity, because they were consistently trying to just protect themself. 

DYLAN: I spent a lot of time tiptoeing around, not really being in my own body or paying attention to my own body because there was so much risk. My body felt a lot of danger, like a lot of fear...  So, it would more show up as like chronic stress in my own body. I had chronic bronchitis.

Dylan hated their body, and couldn't stand looking at themself in the mirror. They would eat but then go to the bathroom and throw up.

DYLAN: I didn't have words for it. I wasn't in my body at all... I was quite suicidal as soon as puberty hit, which is unfortunately a pretty common story for a lot of trans kids. I did not know how to be in my body as a kid and a lot of that for me anyways, was directly tied to the emotional abuse. I was focused on keeping my body safe instead of exploring my gender.

After Dylan graduated from high school they left Idaho to go to college at Arizona State University. As Dylan was leaving, their mom gave them a mission.

DYLAN: You're going to find your man. You're going to get married. You're going to have babies for me. 

But during Dylan’s sophomore year Dylan had once again found themself becoming close to their friend. They remembered the moment. They were dancing to Dylan’s favorite Lady Gaga song “Just Dance” at an 18 and older club. Dylan remembers they looked hot in their white tank top. And they touched Dylan’s arm.... 

DYLAN: ...and like electric and electric shock went through my whole body. And I was like, I've never felt that before in my life. LAUREL: Certainly not with a man. DYLAN: Definitely not exactly. And then I thought about for a whole other week, just like the first time I realized I was gay. And then I went to them and I was like, ‘I'm gay and I'm in love with you.’ And then we made out, it was like the most amazing thing. Cause they were into me too. And we're like freaking out about it and it was amazing. And I had I never thought that like kissing could feel so good. I had never thought love, could feel so good. Like it was so amazing. I just wanted to shout it from the rooftops. 

MUSIC

Dylan wanted to tell their family about this huge revelation but not until they found the right words. They had a lot of anxiety about being rejected. They rehearsed how the conversation might go a million times. Then finally after two months Dylan called their parents...

DYLAN: I asked to talk to each of them separately. I was way more scared of my dad coming from a farming community in rural Idaho...It was actually the opposite that happened. 

After that phone call days went by, then weeks. Dylan says their mom called less and less frequently. And when they did talk it was unsupportive.

DYLAN: She brought up many times that she wished that I would date men. Um, she loved my partner if only she were a man. She really, you know, it was partly out of safety. Like she was like, I don't want you to get beaten.

Dylan remembered coming home for a week during a break in classes. Their mom wanted to take Dylan shopping knowing they hated shopping.

DYLAN: And finally, on the last day I was like, okay, let's, let's go. And, um, she started speeding on the freeway and the speed limit is 75 in Idaho. So she started going like 85 miles an hour and she locked the doors and I was like, what's going on? And she was like, I'll buy you clothes, but they have to be feminine. And she's like, you can't be a butch lesbian, like whatever you do, like you'll never get a job. ... you can't be a joke... And so at that point we were going like 85 miles an hour. I was locked into a car and I was like, I don't know what to do. So I felt very, um, I felt manipulated at the, I felt very unsafe. 

But by that point, Dylan wasn't even so sure "butch lesbian" really described who they were.

Back at school Dylan looked for people they did feel safe with. They got involved in an all gender, queer sorority Gamma Rho Lambda.

DYLAN: And so there were, um, folks who were assigned female at birth, transitioning to male, their folks assigned male at birth, transitioning to female. There were cis-gender women, um, who were queer. They were allies. Like it was all, everyone was welcoming that space and folks were coming from all different class backgrounds and racial backgrounds and still trying to have each other's backs and connect with each other...And so I would support a lot of my trans friends through surgeries and through their gender exploration. 

It was then that Dylan started to have thoughts like if I were a boy, my name would be Sam.

DYLAN: I had all these thoughts, but I didn't realize they were worth paying attention to. 

At the same time their relationships with women only went so deep.

DYLAN: I was not really able to be in deep love or deep romantic connection because I wasn't really in my body, like I was very anxious and very depressed all the time. And I didn't have words for why I didn't really know why.

After they graduated from college Dylan moved to Seattle and worked in outdoor education. But they had chronic back pain, which made taking people climbing really difficult. When they started getting treatment for their back, Dylan realized they had other emotional issues to address.

DYLAN: ...cause I was just reliving my childhood and I'm so grateful for the healers that I had in many different ways from like my dance community that taught me how to be in my body, to like an EMDR therapist that taught me to transform my PTSD into memories. So I wasn't reliving them all the time. And it was as I was getting into my body for the first time in my life, like healing from my abuse as a kid that my body was like, you're like, this is not something else is wrong here. MUSIC

Dylan began to understand the many reasons why they never felt fully in their body -- the emotional abuse at home, feeling out of place sexually, physically, emotionally, spiritually. 

Dylan tried to confront their family about the abuse, and their mom, dad, and brother and sister all denied it.

DYLAN: They, you know, started telling me I was making it all up.

So again Dylan distanced themself from their family. As Dylan got in touch with their body they wanted the outside to match the inside.

DYLAN: It came out in little ways. Like I would try to dress to like go out with my girlfriend at the time. I'd be like, I can't do this. Like this does not feel good. 

They’d try on feminine clothes, then masculine. Then a combination of the two. 

Then Dylan met the first non binary person in their life. The first person who used they/them pronouns.

DYLAN: And I was like, there's an in-between? Like, I don't have to just like choose man? Cause I was like, I am not a man. Like I don't know what I am, but, I don't feel like a woman. But the words like butch lesbian wasn’t really resonating.

For several months Dylan meditated and tried on different genders, different pronouns. Dylan kept coming back to they/them.

DYLAN: And I'm like, that really hits in my own body too. How good it feels and how safe it feels, you know, I'm like, oh, this person has heard of trans or nonbinary people. Like even just that alone, even if they've missed, even if my pronouns. They're not assuming that I'm a man or a woman. Like they see some part of me, like it just, my whole nervous system relaxes. 

But anytime Dylan thought about telling their family, they remembered how it felt to come out the first time.

DYLAN:  I just, I kind of opted myself out. I was like, I don't even want to try.

But therapy had empowered Dylan to take back some control over their life. So they began to meditate on a new name.

DYLAN: My name was, it came to me like a lightning bolt...the name Dylan Wilder Quinn. Dylan it means of the sea, which the ocean was very spiritual for me and holding me...Wilder. because I I've gotten a lot of connection with nature, so Wilder more wild, uh, which is a goal of mine. It's a guiding light and then Quinn means council and it's to trust the wisdom of people around me and the wisdom of my own body... it's such a gift to choose your own name. Like I think that, I think that's healing that can happen for everyone. It was also a gift that the day in court that the judge, when she hit her gavel and was like, congratulations, Dylan Wilder Quinn. Like I just burst into tears. Um, and it was just about gender as it was about shedding my family name. Um, and, and that it struck me in my body how much I knew that to be true.

MUSIC

As Dylan was coming into their own, Donald Trump was elected and his administration rolled back President Obama’s policy against sex discrimination in health care for transgender and non binary people. At the same time Idaho had made it illegal to change your birth certificate. Dylan’s dead name was still out in the world. So Dylan felt in their heart that they wanted to make a physical change and be more visible as a trans person.

So in March of 2017 Dylan started taking hormones.

DYLAN: I was scared. Like I was like, I don't know what's going to happen. Um, I don't know if I'll have access to hormones in a year... I didn't know if I'd like it or not, but I knew I had to try because it was so unknown whether it was an option or not. 

Dylan considered surgery because they weren’t sure if it would be available again but decided hormones, which are mostly reversible, felt better to them.  

DYLAN: I'm on a very low dose of hormones and everyone reads me as a man. So I'm like, you can't help what hormones do to your body? Just like if you're a cisgender. So, um, but my body feels much more whole than I ever thought possible. Like, I didn't know, like people that I like love looking at myself in the mirror, like I love loving on my own body. I love feeling in my body. I love hearing my voice. Just like things that I, I didn't know I was missing until I had them like really is what it is. Um, like I didn't know how unwell I was until I wasn't.

PAUSE

Dylan began to grow a goatee and their voice started to change. They started to look at their reflection again. MUSIC

DYLAN: I love mirrors. I remember like mirrors and photographs of myself. I didn't realize how much I didn't like looking at photos of myself or looking in the mirror. Um, and then some of that's related to the eating disorder too, you know, I was like, I can't look at myself in the mirror, um, without critiquing my body and, um, now yeah. And now I, I love it. 

As Dylan became more confident in who they were physically, they finally felt like they were coming into their own sexually. So Dylan had more physical non monogamous relationships.

DYLAN: I wasn’t tracking I was being fetishized a lot, like being praised, people wanting to be with me just because they wanted to have the experience of being with a trans person. And so I got harmed over and over again in that space ...sexually I had a lot of attention, but romantically, I did not...If I want to be in relationship with people, I just kind of have to accept people, not really being able to see me or hear me or feel me on any deeper level than sexually.

The change wasn’t just physical, it was emotional as well.

DYLAN: So it was kind of this mix of like getting to heal from my childhood and getting to realize that my body, there was many different reasons why my body wasn't, I didn't feel fully in my body. And it was around the nights that I started to find my voice to like quite literally like changing my voice, um, healing the trauma that said don't ever speak up. Like I was actually able to not just ingest anti-depression work, but like, um, and learn about it and do internal work, but like actually speak up about it and trust my own voice. 

It was around this time that Dylan started speaking out for LGBTQIA rights.

DYLAN: Trans people can't wake up and not be an activist, you know, like we can't wake up without scanning our surroundings for safety. Wondering what will happen today. Um, or wondering if we'll hear about someone in the news, like getting killed, or if another state will pass legislature saying, you know, kids can't have access to care, you know, um, to trans health care. LAUREL: Have you ever felt unsafe? DYLAN: The anxiety of if I go out today into the world, will I be beaten or will I be harassed? That anxiety is just as hard on our bodies as, um, as something actually happening. And so like, yes, I've definitely, I've been yelled at, I've been cast out of communities for speaking up about transphobia, have lost jobs for speaking up about transphobia and have had economic struggles. I have been followed on streets and harassed and, um, sexually harassed. For me my body when you ask that I’m like no, I’ve never felt unsafe and yes, I always feel unsafe. Some of that is that bigger picture piece like the fear of losing a job because I’m trans or because I speak out for my needs.

A few years ago Dylan was trying to protect another trans person and called out a cis white woman for saying something transphobic. That woman’s friend came after Dylan, verbally attacking them. This after many incidents of being betrayed by other cis white women in their life… Dylan swore off white women.

A couple weeks following this incident, Dylan helped organize a holistic resistance anti racism workshop. The small group was sitting outside in Seattle. The one white woman who was co- facilitating the workshop, Jennie Pearl, really bothered Dylan because of this experience they’d just had.

DYLAN: I couldn't even look at Jennie the first, like 45 minutes that I met her. I was like this. I was like, I don't want anything to do with this person.

JENNIE: I do remember, um, being like, why aren't they looking at me? 

DYLAN: What surprised me about Jennie was one of the first days that ...can I tell this story? JENNIE: Yes. DYLAN: One of the first workshops we were in, I got pretty activated by a few CIS white women in the space. And I named it and I felt really embarrassed that I named it. I felt embarrassed that I got activated and Jennie came up to me after that workshop, she was facilitating it. I was organizing it. And she said, you know, I really want to know you. I want to be close to you and I'm, I'm gonna hurt you. And it was the first person in my life who had just, who is tracking, oh, she's gonna hurt me. She knows she's going to hurt me because I'm trans and she has some learning to do. And she's cis-gender. And it was the first time in my life that that had happened and it still brings tears.

Both Dylan and Jennie became committed to the work of ending oppression. 

And it turned out Jennie was navigating her own healing, hers from an accident in 2013. She was recovering from a serious concussion after a bike accident.

The doctor told her to avoid screens and to rest. On the second day of lying on the couch she heard shouting from outside.

JENNIE: A couple of days after I got out of the hospital, George Zimmerman was acquitted for the murder of Trayvon Martin. And I lived pretty close to downtown where a lot of the protests were happening and the helicopters were kind of continuous overhead.

Against her doctor's wishes she got online to see what was going on. The Black Lives Matter movement had just been born in the US. So Jennie got on social media to see what her community was posting.

JENNIE: I just see a lot of, um, fellow, mostly white, mostly CIS women in our stretchy pants showing our yoga poses online. And I'm just like, whoa, my community is not paying attention to what's happening. And yet we're out here talking about, you know, all is one and, unity, yoga, literally the word, like to come together to unite, um, connection, all of that. And I'm just like, felt big disconnect…

She went home to Chicago to visit her family.

JENNIE: I literally think that's all I talked about with my family. I'm sure they were very concerned because they know I hit my head and I'm like, no, but y'all like really need to listen. Like this is messed up. Like, and I was coming at with a lot of this energy, right. Because I had realized how much I had caused harm, how much I perpetuate racism, how much that lives in me. 

Jennie realized the impact of the head injury.

JENNIE: Literally falling on the right side of my face. And what was most important when I woke up in that CT scan, what was most important when I got back into my apartment, um, and was sitting there it was really, you know, there are lives out there in my community, living in Oakland that are not safe every single day. And I have not been paying attention to that. LAUREL: You see people different? Like, was it a change in lenses? JENNIE: Yes, it really was. And especially because of like the blurred vision and just the like sensitivity and the PTSD that I was experiencing, it was definitely all of it.

In the wake of the Black Lives Matter movement Jennie got more involved in social justice work.  

JENNIE: I was really kind of coming at it with this, um, got to do it alone, got to do it better, really got to save the whole bay area, yoga community, which is fricking frag and impossible, um, and all that white saviorism. 

Eventually she realized she needed to try a new strategy, one that involved more accountability from people of color mentors. That’s when she found the Black-led organization Holistic Resistance and met its founders Aaron Johnson and Porsha Beed. It’s also when she met Dylan. 

DYLAN:  And so Jennie and I started doing that together and we got really close. Like we were talking every night planning and debriefing and holding each other. ..Aaron would always say, like, let's reach for each other, let's connect with each other as if we're gonna see each other die. You know, which as I say out loud, I'm laughing, but it's like, it's no joke. Like, and he actually does that. And he's modeled that for us. And, and we don't take that lightly. Like, what does it mean to assume that you'll be doing activism work with this person for the rest of your life and be close to this person for the rest of your life. And so that's how we reached for each other long distance. And then we got in person, we're like, ‘oh crap, we're in love’

JENNIE: So in this moment I remember feeling seen of like, oh, there's, there's more to this, this isn't just like a one-way relationship like we're giving and receiving...It wasn't until, you know, months in that I realized like, oh, I was on like a little trip away. And I was like, I want to send Dylan a picture of where I am. And I wanna, you know, I just like felt this heart connection, but it really started from a place like if you would have told me that day that we met when we were on that picnic bench…

DYLAN: I was like, it's cool. Like, I'm sure Jenny is not into trans people. Like I was counting on her being transphobic. I was just assuming I was doing that thing. That's comes from my lineage of being a lesbian, which is like falling for the straight girl. Who's like already in a relationship and like just getting rejected. So I was like, well, cool, that's happening? And I just won't say anything. 

But she was still in Oakland, Dylan in Seattle. And both were in relationships with other people. It wasn’t until Jennie went up to Seattle to help facilitate workshops with Dylan that she realized they might both have feelings. 

JENNIE: Our bodies had this very strong connection. Um, once we had gotten to know each other and our bodies physically were in the same space, it was quite intense. Um, and that chemistry was so for me, I was like, there's no way that this, like, Dylan doesn't feel this way about me. And I kept like checking, you know, like there are these little like moments where I'd be like, well, maybe we'll maybe.And I'll be like, no, no, no, of course not. Of course not. It's just me. It's just my body. Um, and then there was a moment where we were, um, platonically snuggling, and I felt so much happening in my body that I was like, there's no way this isn't happening for them. I'm going to just admit this to myself. And I think I said, so I'm confused... I put it on Dylan and Dylan said something that was like at the time, so cute. And it landed for me. I was like, I don't know, a little nerdy. DYLAN:  I think I said something along the lines of seems like our closeness has, has a sexual chemistry component, something that is very hesitant and it definitely involved the word sexual chemistry. 

The two already knew they connected on an emotional and spiritual level, and now a physical one as well. But they needed to know their level of commitment...

DYLAN: When we realized we were in love, cause it wasn't, it was not planned whatsoever was okay if we're going to try this, are we do, we actually see this as, you know, we'll be together for life.

Then they made the decision to essentially blow up their lives to be together.

JENNIE: It's still painful, you know, for, for both of us in different ways. We weren't married, but we were in a long-term committed partnership. 

Dylan moved to Oakland to be with Jennie. 

JENNIE:  Some of the things I love about Dylan is the way they so deeply care. They so deeply want, I mean, I see this across the board, this isn't just around racism. This isn't just around transphobia, um, ableism, all sorts of things, economic disparity... they're constantly just looking out for folks that often don't get looked out for. And I also got to know how goofy Dylan is, um, and funny, like we're both super goofy in different ways.

DYLAN: It struck me from the get go how thoughtful Jennie was and how deeply loving. It was almost surprising how much I liked that. I think that was before I realized how much I liked her. I was like I miss her, I miss her...I was definitely able to be in my body in like an unprecedented way that that definitely left me way more open to be in love and not in trauma while trying to figure out how to love.

Today Dylan and Jennie continue to give “disrupting our whiteness” workshops, that’s part of a much bigger movement in Holistic Resistance. They organize singing circles in workshops led by Aaron Johnson and Porsha Beed and mentor trans people, kids and their parents.

JENNIE AND DYLAN: Hi y’all! Thanks for being with us at a time when folks aren’t getting together...

This is 2 Lives. I’m Laurel Morales.

OUTRO: Visit our show notes or 2Lives dot org to find information about Holistic Resistance and other resources. This episode was produced and hosted by me, story edited by Camila Kerwin of the Rough Cut Collective, music from Blue Dot Sessions. Annie Gerway creates original illustrations for each episode. You can see them at 2 lives dot org or on our social sites -- Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter at 2 Lives Podcast. 

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