Podcast Host Changes Dialogue Around Mental Illness Recovery

Helen Sneed (shown on laptop) chats with her co-host Valerie Milburn, who we featured earlier in the season.

You can learn more about Mental Health: Hope and Recovery here.

TRANSCRIPT

CONTENT WARNING: We mention suicide in this episode.

The Split

LAUREL: This is 2 LIVES. I’m Laurel Morales.

VALERIE SHIVELY: and I’m Valerie Shively.

LAUREL: 2 LIVES assistant producer VS met today’s storyteller Helen Sneed at the Signal Awards party in New York a few months ago. When was that Valerie?

VALERIE: I think it was October 15th, a beautiful fall day in NYC.

LAUREL: Helen and her co-host Valerie Milburn won a Signal Award for their show Mental Health: Hope and Recovery and 2 Lives also won for best indie podcast. I couldn’t break away from life in Flagstaff but I suggested you go since it was more convenient. 

And I should mention we’re doing something a little different at the start of this episode, because I loved what you had to say about Helen when you met her. What struck you about her?

VALERIE: Well, first of all I was nervous so I was eating a lot of horderves on a yellow couch by myself in a corner. These two older women like two fairy godmothers glided across the floor to the one nervous wallflower. They asked me what podcast I worked for and I said 2 Lives. Right when I said it Helen paused like the name of the show really struck her and said, ‘well, I’ve had two lives.’

LAUREL: Helen Sneed says when she heard Valerie say the name of the show it struck her immediately.

HELEN: This podcast is called Two Lives, which made me sit up and take notice immediately. I  developed a double life…And I kept all the, I called it building a, like a really good footbridge over the sewer that I felt like was inside me. And so I began to learn how to cope with the outside world by keeping all the ugly stuff inside and learning to fake it brilliantly, frankly. 

At one time in Helen’s life she felt divided into two halves – one side full of self loathing and the other vindication.

The problem was is that as I got older, you know, say into my twenties and whatever, the more I was out in the world, the more reasons I found to hate myself. But on the other hand, I also found so many more reasons to redeem myself. So it's this constant, I guess, back and forth, and it kept, but it kept me, it really kept me going.

This is a story about how Helen reconciled her two selves and found wholeness.

This is 2 Lives. I’m Laurel Morales

Depressed By Age 4

Helen grew up on a farm in Austin, Texas. She loved spending time with the horses, goats, and sheep or escaping into books and music.

There were five pieces of plastic in my parents' living room that literally transformed my life. And they were records. And wait, I have to think. It was My Fair Lady, Oklahoma, South Pacific, Rhapsody in Blue, and Swan Lake. And I was so fortunate because through that, I did learn that you could become transported and pulled out of yourself into some fabulous realm.

She wrote short stories and plays that she acted out herself.

Oh gosh, I wrote my first play when I was nine and I starred in it too, which was very convenient and I guess directed it too and built a set which fell over a lot.

Helen sought refuge because at the age of four she experienced a childhood trauma so devastating that it would divide the person she would become.

I buried it so deeply that I didn't know it happened to me for decades. I didn't tell anyone. I didn't, I was so ashamed. I had done something wrong, obviously, in my opinion. It was something dirty and horrible about me… I do have almost perfect amnesia for those first years, but I do remember …I believed that I was so dirty and low, I should live in the barn with the animals…And so I guess as a result of that, I was afraid of everything. There just was no safety for me in the world, and I was always full of shame and self-hatred 

She became depressed at a young age.

HELEN: I had no idea what it was and it's as if just all of a sudden I'd be sitting there and I couldn't think of one thing in the whole world that would ever make me happy again. It was truly the beginning of my identity. … it left me with a real strong basic formula, belief about myself. And that was that I either had to fix myself or kill myself. I had learned way too young, suicide was explained to me. And it immediately made sense to me that this would be the outcome if I could not, I make myself, I guess I would say fully human. I felt like I really was almost part animal.  I looked around at other people and they seemed so superior…I just felt that I was uniquely horrible.

LAUREL: It sounds very lonely.

HELEN: It was incredibly lonely and something that kind of made me lonely for, in many ways, for the rest of my life.

She developed an eating disorder.

It always had been manifested with a real hatred of my body …this constant not being beautiful and not being thin enough or not being this or that. But it was really a terrible, terrible obsession.

But she hid it really well. On the outside she appeared fine. In high school she had a lot of friends and got good grades. 

I became very ambitious and I guess had developed really big goals for myself because I needed something really big to make up for all this, how terrible I was. And so I began to cast a really wide net.

She was involved in a lot of activities, even dated.

So I was doing all the right things on the surface I guess but the problem is I have a mind that's like termites, I can undo a compliment or anything positive in milliseconds. It just gets stripped away. So I've always needed a tremendous amount of positive reinforcement from others, from the outside world. And so that's what I think I was seeking, always seeking, was just what is ever going to make me good enough. 

Living a Lie

After high school Helen moved to Louisiana to go to Tulane University and study theater. She became so good at living a lie, acting suited her.

18 I had decided that my best shot would be to become a great actress. 19 So I could do three or four plays a semester. And I just, all I did was go to rehearsal. And so I would go at the end of, this truly happened, I would introduce myself to my professors at the end of the semester and go, I'm so sorry, I wasn't here. And I would take the final, and because I was smart enough, I could pass it.

She received rave reviews for her performances. 

…which I wanted. I very much wanted it. I think I was looked on as someone that a lot was expected of me…people would say, ‘you're so stellar…’ So I did get a lot of great feedback... 

While she sought the positive attention, she never fully believed the praise and wonderful things people said about her. Her internal critic would denigrate them.

My life was based upon lie upon lie upon lie because so much was being kept inside, and as I got older, you know, I wanted to have a job and friends and maybe even a boyfriend, you know, but if some nice guy called and asked me to to dinner, what was I supposed to say? I mean, yes, I'd love to, but you should know that I'm severely mentally ill. So I didn't know how to handle it, so I just kept it hidden, to my detriment. 

“If I Can Make It There, I’ll Make It Anywhere”

She thought if she became a shining star that would quiet the inner demons and make her into a person loved and respected by other people.

I think I wanted to move to New York before I knew there was one, you know, just mythical place, you know, where you could go and again find, I don't know, redemption, glory, whatever all those things are. And the thing I didn't know about it that I learned is that New York is fabulous. You can reinvent yourself every day and nobody cares. And that's what I was there to do.

But when she arrived in the big city, depression took hold and ate away at her artistic confidence. All the auditions she had planned to go to, the parts she hoped to get, seemed lofty and unattainable. 

The thought of going in a room and being scrutinized for my physical appearance was just beyond me. And it's sad, because you know what, I was a good actress. I've been acting since I was four, so I had a lot of practice.

Without the structure of school or someone to impress, she went back to Austin and fell into a two year depression.

It was the first time it showed and I was pretty incapacitated. And so I just stopped being in the world, stopped functioning. 

But in a manic episode, she managed to move to New York City, her dream. In the city, she made many friends and was able to function over the depression. Helen applied to work as an assistant and eventually finagled her way into the theater world.

I floundered around for a long time, you know, all the things the bad sublets and crazy jobs and all those things. But then I sort of began to get myself on track in the theater, which is where I wanted to be… I went into, I guess what I would call those secondary careers where you help other people's works.

Work became her life. For a long time it was the thing that kept her from falling in on herself.

I became a workaholic like there was no tomorrow. And you see that duplicated structure and obligations and people. And so I would take on these high profile jobs at the national and international level where there was more work that could possibly ever be done. And that was just, that's what I wanted, you know, was just to be in a big job on a big stage. And there was, again, a world where I did get a lot of positive feedback, you know, from colleagues and from the press and from friends and whatever, and artists and whatnot. So it meant, again, these things would get me through for a while, you know, until I had, you know, trounced them with my termites, had eaten them away.

Panic Attacks

For many years Helen lived a double life. And she was such a good actress she was able to fool most people, even her closest friends.

I was able to hide it well enough. And I think, I just didn't know, until 1981 that there was anything wrong with me.

That’s when Helen started having panic attacks. On more than one occasion her roommates took her to the emergency room. The hospital referred her to a psychiatrist but she became so sick she had to return to Austin. After attempting suicide, she was hospitalized for 15 months.

And there were hundreds of rules. And if you broke a rule, you were punished. And so this kind of punitive atmosphere. 

She saw friends restrained for breaking the rules, so Helen figured out if she kept quiet about being suicidal, she could avoid punishment. She became a model patient, a leader who offered her support to her friends. She hated the hospital but she loved the people. They were her salvation.

They had something called suicide watch …someone stared at you as you took a shower, as you went to the bathroom. And I, you know me, with my body image, I couldn't have taken that. So I just left out some really major parts of what was plaguing me.

After she left the hospital she tried different therapists, two that wound up traumatizing her further. 

HELEN: The first one was a male psychiatrist who began a sexual relationship that lasted for six years… the other one was a trauma specialist who after five years of my being completely under her care, I mean she had complete control over my life, told me I was hopelessly sick, I would never recover and I would never work again. 

LAUREL: What was your reaction to that therapist who told you wouldn't recover?

HELEN: Well, I had absolutely, worshiped her and so the sense of betrayal and contempt were staggering and I'll never forget, I looked at her and I said, ‘I will devote the rest of my life to proving you wrong.’ And you know, it was a turning point, I did. I really did.

Landing On The Right Diagnosis

Helen landed a high profile job with Disney to discover and develop new plays for the American theater. She even wrote her own play.

I had this period of being loved by other people and being able to love them back and being part of a community. And that is something I can't do without. And so it's, and it kept me from killing myself.

And after a few years Helen found a therapist she trusted. It took some time to arrive at the right diagnosis.

I ended up with five diagnoses, and I believe all of them to be true, and it's, wait, I have to think, it's… bipolar, anorexia, that one was always self-evident, treatment resistant depression, and post-traumatic stress disorder, and borderline personality disorder. And unfortunately, I think they're all true, because you learn to, part of my recovery was sort of sorting them out.

In the early 2000s Helen finally found a style of therapy that worked for her.

It's called DBT. It's dialectical behavior therapy. I just call it DBT. And what it does is it teaches dozens and dozens of skills to overcome the horrible tidal waves of emotions and feelings, terrible stuff that had driven me all my life. And so through using those skills, I was able to begin to have a sense of autonomy again, that I could manage the emotions and begin to manage

I was working for Disney Theatricals, which was really like the pinnacle of my career…building a life for myself in the theater, which is always what mattered most to me professionally. And then I figured out that I had PTSD and it made, you know, and all of a sudden everything falls into place. All the questions and mysteries about what was wrong with me were answered in this one book called Trauma and Recovery and that just, that was it. And so this doctor persuaded me to quit my job and go into full-time therapy because she said she didn't think I would live much longer if I didn't. And I made the mistake of doing it. And that is...of all my regrets in my whole life, that's the biggest regret, because once I was not working, you know, again, that was, and a full-time mental patient, that was it for me.

‘Fix Me, Jesus’

Around this time friends asked her again about the play she’d written.

Over the years, and it was years, people would say, ‘well, what happened to that? You know, what happened to it? Why aren't you doing it?’ And I don't know what finally made me, I think I just was recovered enough to want to do it. And you know, it takes, it's a lot of risk, you know, and you have to really put yourself on, it's like putting your child out there, you know, in the world.

Helen revised it and showed it to a few people in the industry whose opinion she respected.

… and without exception, they all loved it. 

Equipped with the skills to develop a show, she was successful getting it staged off Broadway.

For a first play to be produced off Broadway was really, I was so fortunate. I mean, you know, I keep saying how lucky I was. I really was. And then it was really well received… it was the dream of my twenties, you know, of really, I just, I, I always thought my life was over. When I was 25, I thought my life was over. And you know, I'm living proof that it is never too late.

LAUREL: And what was it like to see it performed on stage?

HELEN:  It was, I don't know, I guess just, it was, again, it was all like a dream, you know? You just keep going, this, it's happening, I don't believe it. And it was, and so for me, in a way, it was, I guess I'd call it miraculous.

Finding Her Old Self Again

In 2008 Helen traveled with a group of advocates to Washington, D.C. to urge the National Institute of Mental Health to focus on borderline personality disorder. 

People think, oh, they're hopelessly sick, they can't get well, which is not true…The first time we went, we spoke to the head of the NIMH, this great man named Dr. Insull, and his immediate sort of senior staff. When we finished, we were at this long, long table. He looked down at me and he said, 'Helen, would you come back?' 

Helen did come back and stood before a crowd of 200 doctors and researchers. It was like taking center stage again under the glow of the spotlight.

And it was, but it was this strange sense of telling my story and having it have some value that, you know, I made them laugh. I mean, all these things that I used to do, you know, routinely and to be able to do it after so many years. I mean, there I was, I was wearing a suit and it had been so long since I'd worn anything like that…And it was just so. I don't know, it was really almost surreal to feel that, to be back, you know, after such a long and painful distance.

And after we finished, I walked out of the building. It was a beautiful, you know, beautiful sunny day in Washington. And I felt so all of a sudden very strange. And I realized that I, I felt like my old self. I hadn’t felt that way in years. I thought that person was dead. PAUSE But what I learned is that you can retrieve your passions and your abilities and your goals, and you can get them back and they will take you places you never dreamed of. And this was the first time I caught a glimpse of that. And it gave me hope that I might be able to accomplish some of the things I wanted to in life.

After living in New York for 40 years, Helen moved back to Austin to help her mom who was about to turn 90.

She knew she’d need community so went to a NAMI meeting the National Alliance on Mental Illness, and she volunteered to teach. That’s how she met Valerie Milburn (who we featured earlier this season on 2 Lives) at a training weekend for teaching. The two hit it off. After hearing Helen’s story, another friend asked her to start a podcast. She said she’d only do it if Valerie agreed to co-host. 

EXCERPT FROM MENTAL HEALTH: HOPE AND RECOVERY

Well, I think people, they appreciate our being vulnerable enough to tell our stories, you know, the dark side. And they also say that we get, it's not just people who are struggling with mental illness, that's, you know, but it's their families, their loved ones, even professionals, you know, say that they are using our podcast to help treat their patients, which just means the world to me after all my luck which shrinks, right? 1:12:10 We hear from people who say … you saved my life. And, you know, again, I'm always breaking down and crying over these comments and stuff. And so what we're trying to do, and what one woman put it, it was so flattering. She said that we were changing …the way people talk about mental illness, changing the dialogue.

Being able to help others with the same maladies has given her life a purpose she’d never known. She can give people what she lost for decades—hope.

This is 2 Lives. I’m Laurel Morales.