Hopi Quechan Artist Jonah Hill Dreams In Color

You can follow Jonah or see his jewelry at Lomayoosi Designs. Or you can go to his Go Fund Me page to help with his medical bills.

This episode is sponsored by StoryCenter. Use promo code 2LIVES to get 10% off a podcasting workshop at StoryCenter.com/2lives.

Jonah Hill’s dad is Quechan (pronounced kweh-chan), and his mom is Hopi. Jonah, not the actor, spent most of his childhood exploring the three tall sandstone mesas that make up Hopi land. Much of Hopi culture remains a mystery to outsiders today. Only tribal members are included in certain ceremonies. Even Jonah and his siblings were sometimes shut out of traditions.

JONAH: You know, growing up how you wanna be part of something, you know, but then not fully a part of it because you're, you're not full blooded. You're not Hopi, you know, you don't belong here. Uh, we can't show you this because you're not Hopi. But then at the, at the flip side, you know, we're always being told that because your mom's Hopi, you're Hopi, we're growing up in the Hopi tradition, you know? Yeah. But yeah, there's always that little bit of like, um, I don't know how to say it, like doubt, I guess you know, of who you are.

When they first started school the other kids bullied Jonah and his twin brother for being different. When his dad saw them skipping school and coming home with bruises, he said it’s time to learn the way of the Quechan, who have long been known as warriors. 

JONAH: I always remember my dad was always like telling us, you can either keep getting bullied, or you can do something about it, you know, and I'm gonna show you how to do that and that, …And it all went back to who we are through my dad's side, you know, warriors like how my grandpa, he was really and all his brothers all joined the military just so they could keep that tradition of being warrior culture alive, and all my uncles, my dad, my cousins, we all received that, that combat training. When we’re like small, like super small, you know, like it's just, just like really weird growing up and having all these really like intense concepts as a little kid, you know, our, our, our peers, weren't learning this stuff.

He was told about his ancestors battling the Papago and the Apache for control over their fertile land by the Colorado River… about his grandfather who fought in Vietnam and became a marine drill sergeant.

JONAH: In the ultimate end, it's always you and your willpower and your ability to, I guess, survive. That makes a difference between whether or not you're hundreds of miles away from home and coming back.

They learned a combination of Quechan defensive tactics and military training. So everything from hand to hand combat to less aggressive strategies like talking your way out of a fight and mental pain management. Years later Jonah’s teachings came in handy. In high school he’d be at a party when someone got aggressive. 

JONAH: Being able to handle the danger, not in a physical way, but being able to talk through it too … fighting is always a last resort. And if you can talk your way out of it, that's always the best thing, you know? So yeah, that was always the first to, you know, there's like, can we talk about it? Can we figure out how what's, what's wrong? You know, what's, what's going on with you, if not, then let's fight, you know?...like not a lot of people realize that it's like a whole mental thing too.

LAUREL: It sounds like Jedi training.

JONAH: Yeah. You know, that it's really cool cuz that, that the force, you know, when we, uh, first started watching star wars movies and you they're talking about the force, you know, and it's like that something that actually exists.

Jonah’s training wasn’t limited to the kind of training you might expect—learning how to block punches or overpower the other guy. It was also a mental training—a training that involved digging deep into your dreams. Jonah didn’t really know how critical these lessons would become until he needed them most. 

This is 2 Lives. I’m Laurel Morales. 

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When Jonah was little he’d wake up and his dad would always ask him about his dreams.

JONAH: Oh my dad always say, what is your dream about, you know, every time we woke up, what did you dream about? What did you do in your dreams?

His dad told him dreaming was a big part of his Quechan culture. His ancestors even learned how to dream together and make decisions based on their dreams.

JONAH: Our people down there, we rely on like dreams, you know, that's how, we're our dream culture. So, uh, back in the day, our leaders, our elders, the wise people, you know, they were chosen through dreams. We'd have like a big communal dream and everybody would come together and tell, talk about it. And then from there you would do it, figure out who had the best dream, you know, that fits into that time. 

Jonah’s dad taught him to master his dream world. 

JONAH:  I always remember our dad would always talk about dreaming to us ever since we were little kids, you know, and how to, um, I guess lucid dream is what it's called, you know, where you're becoming, um, aware of yourself in the dream world. And you can like control it … little steps, you know…, when you're in your dream, you know, try to do something different each time, you know, try to control your body and your dreams.

Lucid dreaming happens when you’re conscious during a dream and can sort of direct the dream.

In one of those early dreams Jonah describes everything suddenly went from gray to color like in the Wizard of Oz. He remembers in that moment becoming aware of his ability to control the dream. That’s when he remembers stopping himself to turn around and go in a different direction.

JONAH: It was always pounded into us about that, you know, be aware of your dreams because it's a whole other world that you can interact with. You know, you, once you realize you're in your dreams, you know, you can pretty much do anything because it's another existence basically, you know, and in that existence is where you draw a lot of power for yourself.

Learning how to take control of his dreams was part of his training with his father. His dad also taught him and his brother how to endure physical pain as well as mental pain through a dream-like state. 

JONAH: We learned how to like absorb pain and like redirect it into something else, you know? Um, mental exercises, you know, breathing control, like stuff like that we taught was we were little kids too. Cuz you get hurt as a kid, you know? And it's like, you can either cry about it or you can get over it, you know, like take the pain. 

He holds his hands out touching his thumbs to each finger one by one and breathes slowly and steadily until he transcends beyond the pain.

JONAH: My dad taught us how to, where to go to when you're in pain, when you're thinking, uh, when you're in a rough time, basically, you know, it's like, you go to this place, that's it's colors…you go through these layers of colors in your, in your mind…So you start out and pain is in a color of red. So you go through red and then you keep passing through orange yellows. And your ultimate goal is to go into like this kind of like a, like a turquoise blue color. 

He remembers one time using this technique of finding his happy place after falling off his bike. 

JONAH: I like was going down a hill and scraped the sh like my whole arm was just like one big giant. You could see like fat under there. And I didn't wanna say anything cause I thought I was gonna get in trouble. 

Jonah remembered he could manage his own pain. He could deal with it all by himself. His dad had taught him how.

So he went home, washed it, covered it with a paper towel and a long sleeve shirt. He tried to just breathe through it. But that night he refused to eat and kept hiding the left side of his body. His dad could tell something was wrong.  

JONAH: And then he found out he got mad, you know, he was like don't ever hide injuries. It’s like I'm mad at you for hiding it from me. I'm not mad that you got injured. 

The training helped Jonah and his twin. The bullies saw how skilled they were and stopped picking on them. 

Jonah’s parents divorced when he was 11, and he and his siblings would go down and visit his dad in southern Arizona. 

Jonah says no matter what happened, his subconscious was always one place where he felt a sense of refuge where he was completely whole. 

Jonah’s dreams have served as guides throughout his life.

JONAH: You have a dream of being born. You know, you have a dream of being a child, you have a, be a dream of being an adult and then you have a dream of being an elder adult and then you have a dream of your life after death, you know? So we're always just aware of those, you know, and it's just kind of, um, I know, I think that guided like me a lot through my life, you know, it's like, you always want to try to follow those dreams,... there's experiences in life, you know,there's things that you do that you do on your own, you know, you make decisions that may be good or bad, you know, but I try to always follow just dreams.

He followed dreams of carving in the Hopi tradition then years later became a silversmith, creating silver jewelry with a process called tufa casting. He’s also worked as a river guide in the Grand Canyon often sharing the history of his people and their connection to the canyon … each move preceded by a dream. 

Last September he got a call from a friend who was putting a river trip together. Even though he didn’t have any art shows that conflicted, Jonah was still a little hesitant. He says he’s always mindful about going to the Colorado River in the Grand Canyon because it's such a sacred place for the Hopi people. But ultimately he decided to go.

Jonah is diabetic so he knows when he’s on a trip where he’s hiking and camping he has to be mindful of scrapes or cuts. 

On day five Jonah stepped on a cactus needle.

JONAH: I didn't feel it going in or anything. You know, I was checking myself all the time for cuts and whatnot, and it was nothing happening. And, uh, so by, I think like by day six I felt like, kind of like weird, you know, like, uh, like kind of like chilly, you know, it was nice down there, you know, but I just felt kind of like, uh, like not all like not all there, not a hundred percent

He felt like he had caught the flu.

JONAH: The night before we were gonna take out, oh, I was just like, man, I don't feel good. I was just kind of like chilly the whole time, so I woke up that next morning and I was just like, huh, my feet are kind of swollen a little bit.

The next day they arrived at a place called Phantom Ranch, where backpackers can camp or stay in a cabin. It’s also where two main trails into the canyon connect. Jonah was looking forward to meeting his wife Stephanie Jackson half way out of the canyon and hiking the rest of the way together. 

JONAH: We got off the river and we got all ready to hike out and um, I remember starting to hike, you know, and I was just drinking my water. But like by the time I got there, all she like, man, I don't feel too good. You know, it's like feeling kind of nauseous, you know? So it's like, I didn't want to eat anything, but uh, so we got to Phantom ranch. I saw Steph give her a hug and I was like, I think I gotta go to a bathroom. You know? And I just was like, just threw up all my water.

STEPHANIE: Just looking at him, I knew something was wrong, something was up and like going in to give him a hug and his entire body was just soaking wet with sweat. Um, and it wasn't that hot… I don't think I was too worried. I was just like, it's a bad hike out. It's gonna be a rough hike. Yeah. And, um, I just assumed it was heat exhaustion.

The trail is a steep and rocky 4,400 foot climb to the rim. It typically takes a healthy hiker four or five hours to climb out. But for Jonah each step was a slog.  

JONAH: You know, it was just like really hard. I was like, oh man, I told her she's like, are you okay? I was like, yeah, I don't know…I'm just like maybe it's too hot or something, but it's like, I don't feel too good. So we're just like, we gotta hike out though. The whole party made it up, you know, like hours before I did and me and Steph. 49:30 It was just kind of a mental battle, you know? I mean, I was just steps, you know, I was like, I'm gonna walk 50 steps and then I'm gonna stop for a little bit. I'm gonna walk 50 more steps and I'm gonna stop, 

It took Jonah all day to hike out. The sun was going down by the time they reached Stephanie’s car.

JONAH: I was just like uncontrollably shivering by then.

STEPHANIE: He was just like, I'm cold. I wanna go, I wanna get home. And we had a few, we had to go pick up. Um, Mary and Chris, Mary had gone on the river with him. And so we had driven around to one of the hotels there and picked her up and, um, he was wrapped up in my sleeping bag and just passed out, fell asleep the whole drive home.

He went home and slept. When he woke up the following morning his left foot was swollen. After years of dealing with long waits at the Indian Health Service, Jonah was reluctant to go to the doctor and it was the weekend and he didn’t want to deal with the emergency room. So the following Monday he got in to see a doctor at a Flagstaff clinic.

JONAH: I finally made an appointment, went in there, saw the doctor, but because I had chills, they're like, oh, we can't see you in the regular part of the clinic because it might be COVID. And I was like, my foot's really swollen. You know, I just got off of this hike. There's something going on. She's like casually looked at it, you know? And, uh, she's like, well, maybe I'll, I'll prescribe you antibiotics, …

He didn’t get his prescription until the next day. At first they thought the swelling was a reaction to the 10 mile hike. But his foot continued to swell even after he took the medicine.

STEPHANIE: I had gotten home from work, um, he had just gotten out of the shower. Um, and I just hear him yell from the bathroom.

Stephanie came running and saw that the skin of his pinky toe had sloughed off. She made a call to a friend and got Jonah a zoom appointment with another doctor right away. This doctor asked them to move the video on the laptop down so he could look at Jonah’s swollen foot.

JONAH: Like we put the camera down, like you need to go to the emergency room right now, like right now go.

After calling the Indian Health Service, Stephanie took him to the hospital in Flagstaff. 

LAUREL: So you weren't waiting with him in the

STEPHANIE: Hospital? No, LAUREL: dang. I was not waiting and I feel like the unknown just makes it feel so much longer. … he's just, he's like texting me, his phone is dying. He's still having the chills. He hasn't eaten, … so I went back and like took him a bag of food and like his phone charger, a blanket, a water bottle, his book. Um, and I just went in, I didn't ask anybody. I didn't tell anybody. And he was like, I have to go to the bathroom. Yeah. And so I feel like that was kind of the point in time where I was like, this, this is not our normal, you know, mm-hmm <affirmative> to wheel him into the ER bathroom and like have to hold him <affirmative> and yeah. That's just not something that you do with your husband every day. 

He waited in the emergency room for nine hours before he was seen by a doctor. When Jonah was finally seen he was told he had a bad infection, possibly even staph, a highly contagious and at times deadly infection.

JONAH: I finally got into the, to the, got a room, you know, I got a bed in the emergency room and that's when they told me what was going on, you know, they're like, it's really infected. It's probably have a staph infection, you know, they're like, we're gonna have to take that toe right away...then I knew it was really, it was real by then, you know, I just thought it was like some kind of infection. Maybe I would just like get antibiotics and go home, you know? But like, yeah, it's bad.

The doctor was going to amputate his pinky toe on his left foot.

JONAH: Just like, like what's, what am I gonna do? I didn't have insurance. So I was just like, how is this gonna happen? 

As tribal members they’ve always been covered by the federal government’s treaty promises that guarantee health care through the Indian Health Service.

JONAH: Once they told me that, you know, like I said, I was just like accepting of it right away. But at the same time, I was like really nervous and scared. Um, just kind of worried about like what steph and them were going to go through. And like, cause she was like freaked out. And I was just like, I called her, told her what was going on. She started crying. So I was just like, this is serious. I've never been injured this bad before, you know, I'm like, I'm gonna have to go through an amputation. LAUREL: Were you mad at the initial doctor? JONAH: I was pissed, you know? I mean, it was just like, if she would've like really sat down and took the time to actually look at it and said, Hey, maybe you need to go to Tuba City. You know that today or tomorrow. Yeah. I would've went, you know

The surgeons wound up amputating his two smallest toes. The first couple of times the nurses changed his bandage, Jonah refused to look. The third time he forced himself to look at his foot and was shocked by what he saw. His toes looked alien to him.  

STEPHANIE: I think it was just this like gut jaw dropping heartbreak. 

Jonah says the amputation was the worst pain he ever felt worse than smashing his finger with a hammer. The doctor prescribed fentanyl and morphine to deal with it and Jonah spent his first night in the hospital. Because of covid restrictions he was alone.

JONAH: I had like this horrible nightmare, and it was like something that I couldn't control. I was like in my, I was in the hospital in my dream or my nightmare laying in the bed, but there was all of these just bigarms holding me down and like everywhere around me, I couldn't talk, you know, and I was just like trapped in there. And I was like, in my dream, I was trying to press the call button to get the nurses to come in, you know, and it wasn't working cuz I couldn't reach my hand to my bedside. And then finally I woke up on the ground, you know, in my dream. Oh. But I wasn't, it was all in my dream, you know? And I woke up and I was like, I called the nurses because I was finally able to, and I asked her when she came in, I was like, am I okay? Did you guys get me up all right? Then she's like, what are you talking about? I was like, was I on the ground? And she's like, oh no, you were just probably having a nightmare. I don't really have nightmares, you know, ever since a little kid, we never have nightmares because you're, you're in the dream and you're to control 'em. Yeah. But that was the one time I remember in years and years that I couldn't control myself.

Jonah says the opiates only brought his pain down a couple notches because the physical pain was replaced by another kind of mental pain. 

After the drugs wore off and the initial panic subsided, he recalled his ancestors, and what his father used to say. 

JONAH Every time you get hurt, just think about like long time ago, we were raiding in New Mexico. One of our ancestors broke his leg. He would have to make his way home with either his help of his companions or through dreams and portals. You know, we always talk about portals, like places that lead other places, you know, and your mind is a portal. So I  always remember hearing this when we were little kids, you know, it was just like, you need to learn how to get there and this is how you do it …remembering like resilience, remembering stories of how my ancestors have lived through Trials. You know, tribulations we've came through all of this time in order for me to be here from who I came from.

A sense of hope washed over him, then his father’s teachings came flooding back.

JONAH: You need to start using your mind…I can put myself somewhere else. I can like close my eyes, think deep and then guide myself into a place where there is no pain where there's just me and like universe.

Ibuprofen brought his pain down from a 10 to a four – a constant hum of discomfort. Then he used his breathing and meditation techniques any time the wound was cleaned or bandages were changed.

By the third day in the hospital Jonah had shocked his nurses by how he was dealing with the pain. His roommate at the hospital kept asking for more drugs while Jonah meditated and breathed through his pain. It got to the point where he could put himself into a trance or even sleep through some of the procedures.

JONAH: I'm dealing with my pain and the way I know how to the nurses were just like, wow.Every time they'd ask you need medications, I'm like, no, I'm just gonna sit here and meditate for a bit. You know, I would just go, go, go to my place, you know? And they're like, Jonah, we're done. I was like, okay. And then I think it was kind of cool. I don't think they've ever seen that before. You know, just like somebody taking this pain, you know, and just like dealing with it.

Jonah stayed in the hospital for 18 days. When he finally got home, he called his dad.

JONAH: I made sure to call him and tell him, you know what, like everything you taught me, everything you taught us when we were little kids and all helped out now, you know, I was just really appreciative of that, you know, cuz like without that, you know, it's like, I don't know where I would be right now.

Native Americans are twice as likely as anglos to have diabetes. About one in 10 Native Americans have it. Stephanie remembers sitting with her great grandmother when she was little.

STEPHANIE: My great-grandmother was a diabetic and I have a photo of like me soaking my two little tiny feet in a bucket with her and she only has one foot in there cuz she's lost the other part of her leg. LAUREL: Oh my goodness. From diabetes? STEPHANIE: mm-hmm yeah

As he healed at home, hospital bills weighed heavily on Jonah’s mind. Even though the Indian Health Service told them to be seen by the closest hospital, the federal agency now refused to help with their bills which totaled over 100-thousand dollars. His sister started a go fund me page to help.

Jonah worried how he was going to pay the rest. His muscles were beginning to atrophy. He was also concerned about what was happening to his creativity.

JONAH: My legs this leg it's just like not active, you know, even my muscles in my hands, everything was just, he depleted, 

Then he went through phantom pain.

JONAH: My missing toes were hurting was like phantom pain. You know, I was like thinking about it. Cause I read about it, you know, a lot like in reading and stuff and I just never thought I would experience it, you know, but I was like, man, my toes really hurt. But then after a while I was thinking like, you know, if I can feel the phantom pain, there must be a way to feel phantom support. So I think when I took my first steps, like the physical therapist is like, wow, you're really good. This is really good. You know? And I was like really encouraged because the entire time I was thinking I had my toes there helping me out, you know?

That’s when Jonah came up with a new way to deal with phantom pain.

JONAH: Why not trick my mind into registering something that could be there, you know, that's helpful…So once I, once that like flowed into my mind, if it seemed like it was better at me walking, you know, I was like more confident. I was more aware and then sometimes I would slip my, my vision of my Phantom support would slip and that's when I get a little wobbly.

He still wasn’t sure if the trauma had affected his creativity. At first he was camped out on the couch not feeling like he could even pick up his silversmithing hammer. 

JONAH: But in my, my mind I was like, man, I need to do something I need to like be creative. I'm like just sitting here it's so like thinking of my tools, you know, so I started picking up painting.

He found a cheap water color kit he’d bought himself years ago. He made a few strokes on a tablet of paper, painting the trees he could see from the window, then a group of bunnies… 

JONAH: That was really, really a good thing for me to like, just like explore another medium, you know, in order to just get creativity flowing again, because I was getting kind of a little depressed, you know, um, a little like worried about like the, the future, you know, but then once I started painting, I'm like, okay, I can, I can fall back on this if I really need to.

Pretty soon he’d used up all of the paint.

JONAH: I think by taking up painting, it really high helped me mentally too, to kind of deal with more everything that was going on around me. You know, I felt like more, the more I was painting, you know, the more, the less worried I was, you know, the less worried I was for the future. And the more hopeful I became for being able to get back into being creative, … 

Slowly Jonah’s building up his strength. He can now make it upstairs to his bedroom. Gradually he’s spending more and more time back in his shop, silversmithing. On this day he hammers a ring.

SFX: Hammering ring

STEPHANIE: He's had to build the strength to raise his hammer again and just stand in front of his workstation. Um, and I, as Weird as it is to say like the sounds and the noises that come from his back room, um, They're comforting. 

JONAH: Every morning I come down here, I do my thing. I get dressed, you know, I put my socks on over my foot. That's kind of weird trying to get my sock on over this kind of yeah. You know what I mean? And every day I'm just amazed at where I'm at right now. 

For Stephanie she sees Jonah more clearly now.

STEPHANIE: There hasn't been an epiphany but more so this meta conglomerate rough around the edges rock that’s been churned in the bottom of a rapid only to be seen ages later… and like Jonah it’s been smoothed… I can see the origin of Jonah. I can see the strength and discipline from his dad …I see the parts of him that are Hopi and Quechan and how those foundations of his ancestors that influence his spiritual guidance he’s as capable as he ever was before his creativity is continuing to be manifested but now we can clearly see the origin of who Jonah is. PAUSE

While he was in the hospital he came up with an idea for a new mark for his work. 

JONAH: Something else for my hallmark now, you know, just to kind of, um, more as like a symbol for like a change in who I am, you know, and then like as a symbol of going forward.

It’s a footprint with two missing toes.

JONAH: I have a migration symbol spinning off from the, where the two missing toes are representing like my toes traveling on into the other world without me. And then as you go down to heel, there's another migration symbol representing the new steps that I'm taking, you know, the new momentum, the new life that I'm going through. Yeah. And on the part of the foot on there, there's two lines, uh, representing warrior marks, you know, or strength, you know, like mentally, physically like everything that you need to do in order to keep going, you know? So I drew it out and it's, it's my new mark now, you know, that's so cool. And it feels really good to have something like that, you know, as a, I guess kind of as a physical symbol of where I'm headed to. 

Today, eight months after the amputation, Jonah’s finding his balance. He holds a long stick like a sword and swings it in a figure eight balancing on one foot then the other just like he’s training for battle.

This is 2 Lives. I’m Laurel Morales.